Encounters: The UFO Phenomenon, Exposed!/Encounters - The UFO Phenomenon, Exposed (1995).iso/abduct/abduc097.txt

Text File | 1993-07-25 | 32KB | 751 lines

                          Abduction Digest, Number 66

                             Tuesday, July 7th 1992

     (C) Copyright 1992 Paranet Information Service.  All Rights Reserved.

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Today's Topics:

                                    "Vision"
                                  Re: "Vision"
                                 M.I.T. meeting
                               Physically present
                                      Again
                                 MIT conference
                               Who is an Abductee?
                               Who is an abductee?
                                      Again
                                 Silent Invasion
                                 Silent Invasion
                            Crop Circles in Indiana?
                                What's happening
                                What's Happening
                             Ring's "Omega Project"
                                    Intruders
                                Abduction Meaning
                               Who is an Abductee?

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From: [e-mail] (John Burke)
Subject: "Vision"
Date: 24 Jun 92 07:00:00 GMT

Linda Bird writes:
 >
 > Well, I just wanted to share this; it truly was
 > horrifying--just imagine the scene in your mind.  Any
 > ideas?  Comments?

It seems hard to imagine why you would have been scared, but I
guess it's just a matter of personality.  Some of us *enjoy*
things like that.  Anyway, I probably would have tried to stick
my finger in there.  Typical *guy* thing to do, huh?   :-)

                                          --  John

--
John Burke - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Linda Bird)
Subject: Re: "Vision"
Date: 25 Jun 92 06:13:00 GMT

Hi John,

Yep, sticking your finger in the hole I saw would have been something a
guy would do.  <g>  The thing is, I could see depth to this hole, and I
probably could HAVE put my finger in it.  **Yikes!**

Linda

--
Linda Bird - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Don Newman)
Subject: M.I.T. meeting
Date: 26 Jun 92 14:57:00 GMT

I understand that a slect group of abduction researchers(along with
some abducties) had a meeting at M.I.T. about mid June. Please pass
on what the agenda and what the conclusions,if any, were. Thanks Don.
--
Don Newman - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Physically present
Date: 26 Jun 92 02:45:00 GMT

The IUR has just accepted an article by myself, describing the full
story of the Maureen Puddy case from Australia in 1972/73. It is
scheduled to appear in the next IUR.

--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Skiles)
Subject: Again
Date: 26 Jun 92 07:55:00 GMT

David, we had another experience last night, I think.

I went to bed late last night as we are on vacation around the house. Stayed up
till 2:00 a.m. and couldn't get to sleep. The fear came over me that the
(whatevers) were going to return. I just couldn't fall asleep and kept waking
up feeling that they were near. About 3:00 a.m. I woke up my wife and told her
that I was feeing afraid. She said she would stay awake for a while. I finally
fell asleep after that and all seemed to be just my imagination until.....

This morning when my wife said to me that although she was FULLY
awake last night, for some reason she fell imediately asleep
and she never does that. She said she had a strange dream
last night. I asked her what? She said she dreamed that her and I were in our
bed BUT we were floating in some kind of atmosphere. She said it was thicker
than air but lighter than water. And she said that we were not alone. I said
what do you mean? She said that floating around the bed there were
6-8 GREY dolphins with BIG BLACK eyes. And they were just
starring at us. She said she was looking at them and thinking,
"this isn't right." She said that she was also wondering why their eyes, the
dolphin's, were in front.

She said that until now she thought that maybe I was just getting carried away
with this stuff, but now she's scared.

We live out in the middle of nowhere, in the country. There is ample
opportunity to be visited any night. She wanted me to ask you if you had come
up with ANY kind of detriment. Is there any way to fight this?

P.S. What about the questionaire?

Thanks for any help.

Bill

--
Bill Skiles - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (David Jacobs)
Subject: MIT conference
Date: 28 Jun 92 07:39:15 GMT


    The participants in the MIT conference were sworn to uphold a vow of
noncommunication about the content of the MIT conference until the  proceedings
are published.  While I have problems with this, I did in  fact sign the "oath"
which binds me.  However, it was pretty much what  you would expect in an
abduction conference.  I don't know when the  proceedings will be out, but I
expect by the end of the year.
 Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2


--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (David Jacobs)
Subject: Who is an Abductee?
Date: 28 Jun 92 08:18:29 GMT


    I must say that I am quite puzzled by your defense of the idea that anybody
who claims to be an abductee is therefore an abductee. I had assumed that you
would most certainly agree with my position that every case must be competently
investigated before we can tell for sure what, if anything, happened. I am
afraid that I must strongly disagree with your position. I believe that
careful, systematic, investigation of each and every case, regardless of
claims, and regardless even of consciously  recalled memories, is of the utmost
importance. Science will not be advanced without the development of methodology
that will enable us to build the factual data to which you allude in your
message.

     I am also quite astonished by your statement that "witnessed non-physical
abductions involve all the elements of non-witnessed  abductions."  I am
assuming that by "non-physical abductions" you mean  those in which the person
was witnessed to be physically in place durign  the alleged event.  I must say
that in the 350 abductions that I have  looked into and in the many hundreds
that Budd Hopkins has investigated,  the channeled abduction accounts,
delusionary abduction accounts,  invented abduction accounts, and the like,
made by people who might think  that they were abducted but who were not, are
quite different and easily  recognizable by an experienced researcher.  You
might wish to look at the  books that Hopkins and I have written and compare
them to the information  contained in the non-physical abductions. I think that
you will find that the answer to the question that you correctly ask about
whether there is a difference between witnessed non-physical abductions and
non-witnessed (or for that matter, witnessed) physical abductions, is  most
assuredly, yes.

     Keith Basterfield says that hypnosis is illegal in Australia unless
performed by an M.D. and that there are very few of them in the country  who
have expressed any interest in doing this type of work.  I think that  this
state of affairs has severely handicapped your effort to get to the truth of
what is happening in each event.  I hope that this will soon  change.

     I closing, let me reiterate that there are people who think that they have
been abducted and who have not. The Rodeghier definition is good as far as it
goes, but it needs revising on several points not the least ow  which is to
allow for the role of investigation in all cases. We are still in the
sorting-out stage of research and just because one  researcher comes out with a
definition does not mean that it is writ in  stone forever.
 Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2


--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (David Jacobs)
Subject: Who is an abductee?
Date: 28 Jun 92 08:44:50 GMT


    The problem of telling whether a person is an abductee or is not is a
matter of investigation and establishing a number of things about the  person's
credibility, motivations, and so forth.  In many ways it is  similar to the
problems engendered by UFO researchers in the early 1950s  when they wre trying
to decide whether a person had actually seen a UFO  or not.  Ultimately,
deciding on the truthfulness of the witness depends on the patterns established
by experience within the abduction phenomenon  since the Hill case (or even
Vilas Boas).  Finding out exactly what  happened on a detailed level is even
more difficult.  The patterns that I  outlined in my book were the product of a
great deal of digging,  thinking, luck, acticulate abductees, and a touch of
inspiration.  Even  then we have a problem.  Now that the book is out it will
be much easier  to absorb the material and repeat it when inventing a bogus
abduction  tale.  We all have to be even more careful than ever before.

     Of course we have many multiple abduction cases in which the person  was
abducted along with others.  We have cases in which the witnesses  were
"switched off" and not abducted with others.  We have a few cases in  which
there were uninvolved witnesses to an abduction event.  The problem  is what do
we do with the great mass of cases in which the person was  alone during the
abduction event?  Once again, we must rely on the  patterns that have been
established, the veracity of the witness, and so  on.  We do know quite a bit
about what happens in an abduction now.  It  is not like we are floundering
around with great masses of data that we  do not know what to do with, although
heaven knows that problem does  exist.  Still sorting out exactly what happens
during an abduction is  going to be a matter of standardizing methodology and
education.  We are  still just beginning to do this but I think that before
long we will have  accomplished it.

     Right now, let us not get side-tracked into areas like "imaginal"  realms
or Strieberism.  These are ideas thought up out of whole cloth  without a
particle of evidence to back them up.  The overwhelming  preponderance of the
evidence suggests that the abduction event is a  physical event that happens to
victims.  If we keep on the straight and  narrow and investigate abductions
from this perspective, I think that we  will gain the most knowledge.  If we go
off into other directions, that  is o.k., but let us not get confused about
what is actually happening.   There has already been an enormous amount of
wheel spinning and I would  hate to see others begin the spinning all over
again.  Just because a  person dreams up a theory does not mean that it has
any value and that it  has to be taken seriously.
 Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2


--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Marc Michalik)
Subject: Again
Date: 29 Jun 92 22:01:00 GMT

Anyway to fight it?  It may not sound practicle but I have been
"taken" (I hate the word abducted because people think it's a big
joke) and I think that I have found a way to prevent further
"visits".  Don't go to sleep when it is dark outside and carry a
gun.  Several reports that I have seen indicate that the EBEs avoid
weapons like the plague.  A large caliber pistol (such as a 9mm) in
a shoulder holster should be sufficient.  Most, if not all,
abductions happen at night while in bed, if you don't go to sleep
until 5:30 A.M. or so they don't have a chance to take you at night.
I do these things now and haven't had any problems.  But then, I was
only taken once twelve years ago and hadn't had anymore problems
anyway.  I just feel better taking these precautions.
--
Marc Michalik - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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From: [e-mail] (Alan Decker)
Subject: Silent Invasion
Date: 2 Jul 92 01:24:00 GMT

David, Many thanks and hats off to you for your fine effort, "Secret
Life". As I can see you are aware, it is a work that is long past
due. Best of luck getting more "professionals" to help out, also
long past due. I called in on.... Sorry, will have to continue this
message in another post.
--
Alan Decker - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Alan Decker)
Subject: Silent Invasion
Date: 2 Jul 92 01:58:00 GMT

David, to continue last message, I was about to say that I called in
on Don's radio show when you guested, to protest your (and Don's)
presumtion that "if the aliens were going to take over, they could
have done so a long time ago, so at least we don't have to worry
about that". I hope I didn't come across too strong, but it bothers
me when anyone presumes to know the aliens motives, capabilities, or
plans. Terrestrial chauvinism, if you will. I do not claim to be
able to anticipate the aliens next move, but if I were invading an
alien planet, even I can think of several reasons why a gradual,
silent takeover would be preferable to an immediate, blast- em,
war-of-the-worlds type scenario.
        While it is one of the most unpleasant possibilities to
consider, it is a very real one, nonetheless.
Alan
--
Alan Decker - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (David Brune)
Subject: Crop Circles in Indiana?
Date: 2 Jul 92 17:58:00 GMT

All,

Has anyone heard or seen any reports lately of UFO sightings and/or crop circle
reports in the Indiana area?

David

--
David Brune - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (David Jacobs)
Subject: What's happening
Date: 1 Jul 92 06:59:02 GMT


    Bill, your wifes's behavior and dream are suspicious.  It is  impossible to
tell exactly what has happened until proper, competent,  investigation has been
accomplished.  Budd and I are going to be  conducting a series of workshops
around the country for psychiatrists and  psychologists who are interested in
learning more about the subject.  I  hope that eventually we can have somebody
in your area who will be  available to do this kind of work.

     I don't know exactly what happened the other night, but you and your  wife
can give each other the support that you both might require.  It is  important
to be able to deal with this phenomenon with someone else.  You  are lucky to
have this support because there are many who do not.  The  best I can say is
that you are not alone, there are many, many, others  who have had the same
experiences that you have related before.  I wish  that I could just tell you
what to do and then it would alleviate the  situation, but unfortunately I can
not.  We just don't know what to do.   We have no way of stopping it.  When I
work with people, I tell them that  I cannot give physical control, the only
thing that we can do is work  toward intellectual and emotional control.  If
that is achieved, I think  that I have won a victory.

     Hang on.  Hold Tight.  Let's see if we can up up with somebody in the
near future who you can work with in your area. Incidentally, the questionnaire
is in the mail.
 Via SPITFIRE Bulletin Board System - Version 3.2


--
David Jacobs - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Subject: What's Happening
Date: 3 Jul 92 17:42:01 GMT

Although I realize that there is a limited amount of information which can be
discussed about the recent MIT conference, I would appreciate your sharing
with us what the goals and objectives were for that meeting.

Thanks Dave.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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From: [e-mail] (Doug Morrow)
Subject: Ring's "Omega Project"
Date: 4 Jul 92 00:28:00 GMT

David,

I am in the process of reading Kenneth Ring's new book "The Omega
Project". He presents some interesting thoughts on the relationship
between UFO encounters and Near Death Experiences.

Are you aware of his work? If so, do you have any comments on it?
--
Doug Morrow - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Keith Basterfield)
Subject: Intruders
Date: 30 Jun 92 23:50:00 GMT

The mini series "Intruders" is about to be shown this weekend down
here in Australia. It will be interesting to see what affect this has
on the reporting rate of abductions. The UFORA network has only
recorded one possible new abduction case in the last few months. I'll
keep you posted.

--
Keith Basterfield - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]



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From: [e-mail] (Pony Godic)
Subject: Abduction Meaning
Date: 2 Jul 92 08:38:00 GMT

David,

As Linda Bird's recent write up on the appearance of a space hole in a book
evidences, almost everyone has had one or more bizarre experiences in life.
 Some are so way out, that no matter how hard you think, you can't find a
meaning.  I thought really hard on Linda's experience but could think of no
plausible explanation.  Anyway, my point is that when we have extraordinary
experiences we seek an answer and on occasion that answer is itself
extraordinary.

Now, bearing in mind the public awareness of abduction phenomena, via the media
and books, it seems possible to me that people are in danger of trying to
understand unusual experiences in their lives using abduction indicators as a
tool.

I'm most defintely not saying here that abductions don't take place. I've seen
some very compelling cases that really could not be understood in any other way
than as abductions. On the other hand, I believe that psychological factors in
a given person's personality may cause them to decide they've been abducted
when they haven't.  But, I also believe that any person who has a series of
unexplained events in their background may, in a genuine search for meaning,
tie them together as an abduction and I think it's important to be aware of
this.  To illustrate this, I can talk from my own experience:

When I was about 7, I recall my younger sister being put to bed in the middle
of the night.  I saw her stand up in her cot and yet it also seemed to be me.
 The cot floated up into the air and there were brilliant stars shooting and
flashing in pinks and greens and yellows etc.
agaist the black night sky.
Now I don't know why my younger sister was being put to bed late, but I've no
doubt that I dreamed a particularly vivid dream and I even know the source.  A
"Rupert" book I had.  (I don't know if you have these in the U.S.  I think
they're originally English.  Rupert is a bear who wore clothes).

A couple of years later, I was lying in bed one night and there were three
people floating up around the upper walls.  The ceilings were high.  The people
were invisible.  They seemed to have no bodies, only big faces half in and half
out the wall.  There seemed to be 2 men and a woman.  They were all discussing
me.  I listened curiously and next day told my parents about it.  They told me
that people who hear voices that aren't there end up in the nut house - end of
Pony hearing voices.

In about my early 20s (I'm 40 now), I was telling my younger brother and sister
that I used to have this dream about how a UFO came over the back yard of where
we used to live in the country as kids.  I related that I was behind the
tankstand behind the laundry and heard someone cry out and that I came running
out to see the UFO.  My younger sister said she had exactly the same dream, but
she came out from a different directin to see it.  In her dream, the aliens
landed and got out of the UFO and, having paralysed her, came for her.  My
brother said he dreamed the same dream, but he came from another direction
again. I always thought that terribly interesting.  A few years later, I
mentioned the dream, my brother not only didn't remember the dream, he didn't
remember the discussion in which we realized we dreamed the same dream from
different angles.  My younger sister was very vague.  I think it obvious that
we all got caught up in the conversation and attached meaning where there was
no meaning.

Now to recent times.  When Vladimir and I moved up here (from Adelaide to
Cairns - literally from one end of Australia to the other) in mid November last
year, I had 2 interesting experiences on the long stretch of road between
Broken Hill and Neferti.  At dusk I saw what can best be described as a
Tasmanian Tiger, extinct on the Australian mainland as well as in Tasmania.  A
friend of mine submitted a report to the SA Museum and they said I did appear
to see a Tasmanian Tiger even though they are extinct.  Anyway, the stripes
were in the wrong place and my sighting was of a creature that I feel was
longer in body and tail, so I'm not going to claim a TT sighting, still it was
an interesting experience to have had.  But, it's not the relevant experience.
 That happened some time later in the dark.  The road we were travelling was
infested with kangaroos and wallabies and ran through flat scrubland as far as
the eye could see in any direction. It was very isolated and at night even more
so.  Anyway, we were driving along at a slow pace, straining our eyes in our
efforts not to hit a kangaroo, when all of a sudden out of the darkness I saw
two green forms not only looming but seeming to advance upon us.  They had very
broad shoulders and narrow waists.  There were long arms, but the heads and
legs were not caught in the car headlights, so I didn't see them.  They seemed
so big and so humanoid in shape, and seemed to actually be coming for us, that
I gasped so loudly that Vladimir asked me what was wrong.  Well, of course, I
knew immediately that I had seen two trees that were of the shape described and
that the angle of the car headlights and our speed added to the illusion of
humanoid shape and movement.

Now the point of all the above is that I am aware that these are all separate
incidents and that they are all entirely  mundane in origin.  I assure you I
have a very vivid imagination which no doubt was a contributing factor.
 Nevertheless, I have not tried to find a meaning in the meaningless, but many
people may indulge in that exercise and end up being researched as abductees.
 I bring this to your attention because I feel that the search for meaning is
something that must be born in mind in abduction research, particularly when
one considers the numbers of abductions are escalating.
Cheers, Pony.

--
Pony Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
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From: [e-mail] (Vladimir Godic)
Subject: Who is an Abductee?
Date: 5 Jul 92 00:26:00 GMT


 > I must say that I am quite puzzled by your defense of the idea
 > that  anybody who claims to be an abductee is therefore an
 > abductee.  I had  assumed that you would most certainly  agree

Since I never said or infered the above, I am puzzled by it. Nevertheless,
lets's not get distracted by our mutual puzzlement.


 > with my position that every  case must be competently
 > investigated before we can tell for sure what, if  anything,
 > happened.  I am afraid that I must strongly disagree with your
 > position.  I believe that careful, systematic, investigation of
 > each and  every case, regardless of claims, and regardless even
 > of consciously  recalled memories, is of the utmost importance.

I'm tempted to comment on the above in the context of it being a psychological
ploy.  But, let's keep it simple.  I don't know what you perceive my position
to be, however, it is a straight forward belief in information sharing and
objective scientific investigation by those with the ability to do so.  Of
course, one cannot evaluate the worth of any research after publication in the
popular media, especially when a wealth of background information is not
shared. Again, I repeat my call for refereed works.


> Science will not be  advanced without the development of
 > methodology that will enable us to  build the factual data to
 > which you allude in your message.
 >

Methodology develops out of shared information, intelligent discussion and
participation by more than one or two researchers.

 >I am also quite astonished by your statement that
 > "witnessed  non-physical abductions involve all the elements of
 > non-witnessed  abductions."  I am assuming that by "non-physical
 > abductions" you mean  those in which the person was witnessed to
 > be physically in place durign  the alleged event.  I must say
 > that in the 350 abductions that I have  looked into and in the
 > many hundreds that Budd Hopkins has investigated,  the channeled
 > abduction accounts, delusionary abduction accounts,  invented
 > abduction accounts, and the like, made by people who might think
 >  that they were abducted but who were not, are quite different
 > and easily  recognizable by an experienced researcher. You
 > might wish to look at the  books that Hopkins and I have written
 > and compare them to the information  contained in the non-
 > physical abductions.  I think that you will find  that the
 > answer to the question that you correctly ask about whether
 > there  is a difference between witnessed non-physical abductions
 > and  non-witnessed (or for that matter, witnessed) physical
 > abductions, is  most assuredly, yes.
 >

It is interesting to note, that one researcher's conclusion may not be
anothers, this is why information sharing, vigorous discussion and refereed
articles, in intelligent journals, are so vital.


 >      Keith Basterfield says that hypnosis is illegal in
 > Australia unless  performed by an M.D. and that there are very
 > few of them in the country  who have expressed any interest in
 > doing this type of work.  I think that  this state of affairs
 > has severely handicapped your effort to get to the  truth of
 > what is happening in each event.  I hope that this will soon
 > change.
 >

Although we may not be suffering an inundation of abduction reports here in
Australia, it doesn't mean that we lack the ability to objectively evaluate the
subject as a whole.


>      I closing, let me reiterate that there are people who think
 > that they  have been abducted and who have not.  The Rodeghier
 > definition is good as  far as it goes, but it needs revising on
 > several points not the least ow  which is to allow for the role
 > of investigation in all cases.  We are  still in the sorting-out
 > stage of research and just because one  researcher comes out
 > with a definition does not mean that it is writ in  stone
 > forever.


Without getting personal, I must in all honesty say that you, in
company with Budd Hopkins, appear to present yourselves as "the" leading
researchers with the experience and track record to have a more informed
opinion than anyone else.  This disturbes me, because no area of UFO research
should be monopolised. There are other researchers contributing to abduction
debate and just because they are not "the" researchers, doesn't mean their
work is invalid.

--
Vladimir Godic - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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